In a companion piece to the previously posted interview with Geo from Blue Scholars, Matson on Music shines a light on the local rap group's musical backbone, Sabzi.

On his cell phone while walking around the International District ordering Vietnamese sandwiches, he talks about the Scholars' new "OOF!" EP, the unusual way its best song "Bananas" came together, the "cute" sound of Jawaiian reggae (Jamaican + Hawaiian), and the release party for "OOF!" downtown at 'Ohana (Tuesday, 08/25).

That night, there'll be 100 copies for sale. You can also buy it at Caffe Vita.

Photo via Red Bull

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I think your production is on a different level than where it was. Way to go. Do you feel the same way?

The production is on a different level?

I feel like I can hear the silences more, everything seems to be happening in a vacuum, and I really like that sound. It feels more 3-D to me. I hear more drums without bass, and then the bass comes from someplace else, you know what I mean?

So you're talking about sonic qualities or sonic characteristics?

It sounds like you made it in new room or used all new equipment or something.

Oooooh...yeah, yeah, yeah. There's definitely some of that going on. If anyone really follows what I've done, every album is different. I don't even think I have a signature sound. Maybe a little bit, maybe old Blue Scholars stuff. Just because of the volume of music we put out.

Oh, you totally do. Wanna know what it is?

What.

It's probably the most subliminal thing songwriters do, but it's your chord progressions.

OK, right, I thought...that's different. I thought we were talking about sonics. Sound textures.

You're right, though. The chord progression thing, it's cool to hear you notice that. You have to know music a little better than the average person, it seems, to pick up on that and articulate it. It's actually very simple. Very subtle, very simple.Yeah, that's my favorite thing.

OK, I have two favorite things. One is definitely the chords, and the other has to do with rhythm. And percussive elements, and percussion that's not necessarily played by drums, but even melodic instruments. Like the whole "808" song is entirely percussive to me. That organ is a very percussive element. So, what you're gonna hear probably on some of the future Blue Scholars stuff is percussive Saba.

In terms of sonic textures, this release is an EP, and it's sort of like the Blue Scholars go on vacation, and we want you to come along. So the slate was totally cleared to try something different that could be separate from everything else. Like, maybe we'll never make music again that sounds like this. 'Cause this EP really is just "OOF!," baby. Just a vacation.

Where did you get the drums for "Bananas"?

Click to play

Those are a combination of some recorded drums that I got from some people.

Could you be more vague?

No. And then I edited them, and that's about it. That first track, in a way, is my favorite one.

[There is good reason to believe the drums are taiko.]

It's hands down my favorite one.

I feel it's the best representation of me, creatively, on that record. The rest of them are still me, but it's like "me doing THIS." You know, like Saba doing a Jawaiian song, or Saba doing this. But that was like, doing something that works for this record.

I love the way Geo sounds on it, but the song's almost deeper to me as an instrumental. There's so little going on, and the keyboard comes in way at the end. And when it starts, it's not messing around. It does its little figure skating move, and it's out.

Thanks. That song was made in, like, an hour. The EP was done, bro. We were finished. And we were recording at Macklemore's studio, and I had to go to New York, I had a show to do, and Ben had family coming over, so he had to leave and get everyone out of there. And I was like, "Hold up." I set the metronome at 100 bpms, and [to Geo, I] was just like, "Just do something a capella." And we did, to a click track. And what's interesting is some of the mistakes, and some of the cadence things that he did in there actually made that song better because I built that beat around the musical qualities of his a capella, as opposed to him writing around a beat. It was totally different. So, the words came first on that one.

I'm gonna have to go listen to that again with that in mind.

What's interesting is when I get the words first, I'll make the beat in a snap. I knock it out real quick.

Is that something you're gonna do more often, then?

Yeah. I was like, "Yo, we should try this some more in the future. You just send me some a capellas and I'll build something around them."

That's interesting, but you can't do that forever. Don't rappers need music to write to?

Right, but Geo, as a poet and a spoken word guy.... If you listen to his delivery on that song, it's way better than anything else on that record. I think it has way more flavor. Like, he was alone when he did that. There was nothing to hide behind, nothing to assist him. He was just who he was. And he put it out there. That song is not only the beat, but the verse...everything about it makes it my favorite one the record.

The other thing is, with this record, I wanted there to be a global thing. It's about being a global citizen, and identifying ourselves as part of that generation. Because there's people our age in other cities in the word, like Johannesburg, Tokyo, London, Addis Ababa, that all have something in common, thanks to the internet. So this project is like the tip of the iceberg in what we hope to explore in the future. Yeah, we're from Seattle, that's where we happen to be, but the nation we claim is something that is global that people are contributing to all over the world.

So that's why "Cruz" sounds like Akon and "HI-808" sounds like the Neptunes and "Bananas" sounds tribal?

Click to play

Click to play

You're saying "Cruz" sounds like an Akon song?

Sounds like that one where he's driving through the jungle in a Jeep. I forget what it's called.

I did not have that in mind. "Cruz" is entirely inspired by Hawaiian reggae that's on the radio out there.

Is that's what's regularly playing?

I mean, they have top 40. But there's a couple stations that are all island reggae. 'Cause there's Caribbean reggae, like dancehall reggae, which is where reggae comes from originally - Jamaica, Trinidad, Barbados - and then there's reggaeton, which is the Latino reggae, which isn't even reggae, like the DR, Puerto Rico thing. Then there's this other blend, which is the Pacific island reggae, which is like Hawaii, Guam, Saipan. And that's very interesting.

The difference between the styles being the Hawaiian version is...

It's a little more cute, honestly. I don't really know how to explain it. When I hear it here, when I'm on the mainland, it is what it is. But when I went out there, it made a lot more sense.

You need to be around the sun and the ocean to feel it?

Partially. I would listen to that, and I would listen to reggae, and be like, "Man, the Hawaii stuff is kind of silly." Maybe not silly, but there's certain things about it that aren't as musically advanced. And then I get out there, and I'm like, "No, this is its own thing. It's tight." I like C.G., I like 3 Plus...

I don't know what that is.

Right. I'm hoping to put together a mixtape of Jawaiian songs.

What is "Jawaiian"?

Jawaiian is Jamaican plus Hawaiian.

Ah. Yeah, I hear you about that cute sound.

Yeah, that synth that's in there in the "Cruz" song is very cute.

It's childlike.

If that were a different instrument, people would identify it as a different type of reggae song. But as soon as that comes in, it's like, "That's some island s__t." All those synths are made by me.

Meaning you made the patch?

Yeah.

What kind of equipment are you using?

I'm using a combination of older Reactor stuff, and soft synthesizers. Emulators that run modules.

You made the whole thing on a computer?

Yeah, it's all on a computer. Engineering patches. You sit down and adjust the algorithms and build the synthesizer from its components. You add filters, one, two, three, four oscillators, and you pick what kind of wave they do, sine wave, square wave, rectangle. Run those through filters, add effects, that kind of stuff.

Why keep it all on a computer and not use analog stuff?

Just because I don't have that equipment.

Is that something you're not wanting to do?

No, I would love to get an actual studio space for long-term, where I can finally get all this stuff and record instruments as well as vocals.

Do you think putting instrumentals on the EP gives you more shine, or is the idea to be democratic and let people rhyme over your compositions?

I like putting out instrumentals. That's the riddim disc, baby. Which is part of island music culture. Particularly from Jamaica, when someone writes a tune, they make a riddim that, like, 80 other people make tunes to. What I like to think of music as, is music is really great when it expresses a culture. That's why our album isn't just, "Two guys went on vacation."

Particularly with the reggae song or "HI-808," those are really good canvases for someone else to paint on.

I heard someone already did, over "HI-808."

Yeah. This was even before we released it. Someone put a post up, and some rapper guy had already written to it.

And you weren't mad about it?

No, not at all. That's awesome. I want people to do that more. That would be filthy. I already sent this track to a bunch of Seattle people. And I don't know if they get it yet. But if they write their own versions, I will totally blast it out. How dope would that be? If there's a particular rhythm, or tune, or beat, I should say, that people like, how dope would that be if there's like six different versions and people are arguing over whose is best? Like they're really in an arena, showing their skills. And dancehall and reggae culture's been doing that for over 20 years. I've been following dancehall for a long time, and Geo has been, too, to an extent, and we've always said it would be dope if it came into hiphop. And maybe we shouldn't be calling it "hiphop." Maybe it's this new, global music.

I hear what you're saying. I understand the word hiphop is pretty loaded. It means a different thing to different people.

I love it, but that word has almost been ruined.

It continually happens to me that my favorite hiphop is stuff people say is not hiphop.

I welcome that. I hope people say, "This ain't hiphop." Hold on, let me order this sandwich.

[Saba is heard ordering two chicken and egg sandwiches.]

Did you just order a sandwich with a fried egg?

Yeah.

Where are you?

Saigon Deli, 12th and Jackson.

I already know. Didn't know about the fried egg, though.

Gotta ask for the fried egg. It's great.

You tour a lot, and I think people in Seattle hiphop are aware you're putting in work.

I don't know what people think about us. I stopped paying attention to what people are saying, to a certain extent.

[Saba is asked if he only wanted one egg. No, he clarifies, one egg on each sandwich. Two eggs.]

What were we talking about?

I don't remember. Have you ever been to another place with such great Vietnamese food?

Yes. The Bay area.

Do they have it like we have it?

They have it more, actually. The Bay is like this, and then Minneapolis has some Vietnamese. New York City doesn't really have stuff like this.

When I went to New York, I was like, "It's gonna be huge. New York is huge, I'm gonna meet these people and totally expand my mind." And you get out there, and what it is is a whole bunch of tunnel vision people, each in their own niche tribe. And because New York is so big, each tribe is, like, a worthy tribe. Meaning the niche hiphop out there is big enough, that it's worth talking about. But their tunnel vision is so strong, people out there will go, "Oh, there'a Asian gangs? I didn't know that." Really dumb stuff. And I'm not putting all New York on blast like that, but I was shocked how often I came across that kind of ignorance. Because we're here [in Seattle], our smallness almost forces us to recognize...

Each other?

Yeah! I don't think you can live here and not recognize there's a huge East African community here.

Unless you never go south of Capitol Hill.

Right. So in reference to what people say [about Blue Scholars], a lot of that's niche-specific.

We make cross-niche music, meaning we make music that's not so tribally specific that other groups can't participate. Hiphop people are gonna be into this, and island people are gonna be into this. If you go to the release party this Tuesday - which we're kind of announcing at the last minute - at 'Ohana, it's a Hawaiian style reggae party. And a certain group might show up to do some songs.

Who is the certain group?

I'm in it. Technically not gonna announce it, but there it is.