Arbitron now uses meter to measure radio listening

What happened to talk radio in Seattle?

It used to rule.

Given the bombast still heard on the airwaves, and how many spoken-word stations are found on the AM dial, it might appear that it's still dominant.

But it's gone, gone, gone from the top rankings compiled by Arbitron.

The fact is, even Rush Limbaugh, who beats out other talk-show hosts in this market, has only about 11,000 or 12,000 listeners in the advertiser-coveted 25-54 age group during an average quarter-hour in his midmorning slot.

That's about 5.6 percent of the 209,000-some people in that group whose radios are turned on at that time.

Last winter, KTTH "The Truth," home of Rush, was ranked No. 4.

It's now No. 17.

KIRO-AM-FM, home of Dori Monson and Dave Ross, was simulcasting in both bands last winter and was ranked No. 3. True, broadcasting Seahawks games helped the ratings.

Then, in April, Dori and his fellow talk-show hosts were switched just to FM.

Now the KIRO-FM talkers are at No. 18.

So what caused the crash?

The change might not be in people's listening habits at all. Arbitron switched from its old-fashioned diary method to an electronic way of finding out who was listening to what, and when.

It used to be that survey participants had to remember their listening habits. This led to obvious inaccuracies, as people guessed and fudged. They sometimes wrote down that they listened to a station all morning when they actually were switching around. Maybe they didn't like a particular song, or something a disc jockey said, or just got bored with whatever was on.

But now that the Portable People Meters, known as a PPMs, which can be worn like a pager, are around to monitor the airwave signals instead, the fudging is gone.

In the old days of diaries, somebody could be a fan of particular talk show, and write down that five days a week, from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m., he was listening to that station, says Mark O'Neill, one of the founders of ROI Media Solutions in Los Angeles. He's a media consultant doing PPM consulting these days, although not in Seattle.

That method didn't reflect reality, he says.

"Not even the talk-show host's mother could listen that long to it," O'Neill says.

Monson also acknowledges the old diary system was flawed, "and it said I was the top talk show in town for 12 years. It's a new set of rules and I have to figure out how to prevail under the new set of rules."

Tuning out

But the decline in talk radio's ratings may not be based solely on how they are figured. It's likely, some in the industry say, that some listeners are tuning out talk in general these days.

There is this assessment from Kathy Neukirchen, president of Media Plus, a Seattle media-buying agency that has clients such as Bartell Drugs, the Dairy Farmers of Washington and Swedish Medical Center:

"I think music is more enjoyable, and news causes you to think and contemplate."

In a recession, contemplation apparently isn't a ratings booster.

At No. 1 here, there is KJAQ, with its adult hits heavy on '80s pop. No. 2 is held by classic rock KZOK.

"I think KZOK and KJAQ do so well because music entertainment is a little easier to use than talk radio," says Carey Curelop, program director for those two stations.

He's also program director for KPTK, home of liberal talk radio, so he's familiar with the problems facing talk stations.

"If you're a fan of talk radio, you have to be really paying attention. You can't be a casual listener," Curelop says. "With music radio, you push the button, you know the song. It's easy."

Another rock station, KJR-FM, ranked at No. 5, has done astonishingly well with its classic-hits format.

Says Jay Kelly, that station's program director, "It's hard to sing along to a talk show when people want to kick back and enjoy things, especially now that there is no good news."

Stations doing well

Still, it's not all dour results for spoken radio — a term that includes stations that are mostly talk, and stations that are mostly news, with some talk.

Two spoken-word radio stations that are not primarily talk stations have done relatively well.

Tied at No. 10 there is KUOW, the National Public Radio affiliate, which rockets to No. 1 in the Seattle ZIP codes.

And there is KOMO-AM-FM, with its mostly all-news format and ubiquitous traffic reports.

"We live in a market where the traffic is horrendous," says Dennis Kelly, KOMO program director. "And so we have traffic reports every 10 minutes, 24/7."

Overall, KOMO is No. 16.

But if younger audiences are discounted, KOMO shoots to No. 6 with listeners ages 35-64.

On May 15, KOMO began simulcasting its signal on FM.

Kelly says that across the country, stations that are basically all-news have done better than those that are mostly talk.

"I found the research shows that listeners are clamoring for balance," he says. "All-news stations work hard at being objective and balanced."

KOMO does go talk from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. on weekdays, when it airs "The Commentators."

But KOMO says that show is balanced, with John Carlson (he's conservative one) and Ken Schram (he's liberal one). On that show, too, the station doesn't forget to run the traffic reports every 10 minutes.

There are some positive signs for KIRO-FM.

Monson, for example, during noon to 1 p.m. (the show goes until 3 p.m.), has scrambled back up to No. 1 among spoken-word formats at that time, followed closely by KOMO's "The Commentators."

Adapting to change

So the adaptation continues for talk radio, and, actually, for all radio in a PPM world that shows listenership is diluted.

Long gone are the days when in the 1960s, KJR-AM, then a Top 40 station led by the legendary Pat O'Day, could command a fifth to a third of the total listening audience.

Back then, FM radio was not a factor. Now the audience is fragmented, with some 57 stations competing for more than $203 million in annual advertising money.

The industry calls it "compression." During an average quarter-hour, there might be only a 4,000-listener difference between a No. 1 and a No. 10 station.

"The biggest problem for radio stations is advertisers saying, 'I don't understand this,' " says O'Neill about these compressed ratings, "and taking their advertising dollars to Internet or cable."

That means, says O'Neill, "There is an incredibly competitive battle for tenth of a rating point."

So there is a scramble going trying to get a handle on PPM, and certainly plenty of management meetings.

O'Neill jets from city to city to do consulting, reaching platinum level on his frequent-flier account.

The thing is, for a local talk-show host, exactly how do you adapt?

What exactly is supposed to change from what had worked only a few months ago?

Says Ross, morning talk-show host on KIRO-FM, "I have yet to find a ratings book that's told me day-to-day what to do on the air. I'm still waiting for that memo."

Erik Lacitis: 206-464-2237 or elacitis@seattletimes.com